Reading Group: Till We Have Faces - NarniaWeb Forum https://community-dev.narniaweb.com/community/reading-group-till-we-have-faces/ NarniaWeb Forum Discussion Board en-US Fri, 10 Apr 2026 08:43:19 +0000 wpForo 60 Closing Notice https://community-dev.narniaweb.com/community/reading-group-till-we-have-faces/closing-notice/ Fri, 15 Oct 2010 14:10:53 +0000 Thanks to everybody who participated in this reading group. If you'd like to see more reading groups like this in the future, please let us know!]]> Reading Group: Till We Have Faces fantasia https://community-dev.narniaweb.com/community/reading-group-till-we-have-faces/closing-notice/ Till We Have Faces: Final Thoughts. https://community-dev.narniaweb.com/community/reading-group-till-we-have-faces/till-we-have-faces-final-thoughts/ Thu, 26 Aug 2010 15:21:56 +0000 An author doesn't neccessarily understand the meaning of his own story better than anyone else, so I give my account of Till We Have Faces simply for what it is worth. The "levels" I am conscious of are there: 1: A work of (supposed) historical imagination. Much of what you take as allegory was intended solely as realistic idea. . . 2: Psyche is an instance of the anima naturaliter Christiana making the best of the pagan religion she is brought up in and thus being guided (but always "under the cloud," always in terms of her own imagination or that of her people) towards the true God. She is in some ways like Christ because every good man or woman is like Christ. But what else could they be like? But of course, my interest is primarily in Orual. 3: Orual is not a symbol, but an instance, a "case " of human affection in its natural condition, true, tender, suffering, but in the long run tyranically possessive and ready to turn to hatred when the beloved ceases to be its possession. What such love particularly cannot stand is to see the beloved passing into a sphere where it cannot follow. All this I hoped would stand as a mere story in its own right. But- 4: Of course I had always in mind its close parallel to what is probably happening at this moment in at least five families in your home town. Someone becomes a Christian, or in a family nominally Christian already, does something like becoming a missionary or entering a religious order. The others suffer a sense of outrage. What they love is being taken from them. The boy must be mad. And the conceit of him! Or: is there something in it after all?. . . Now I, as a Christian, have a good deal of sympathy with those jealous, suffering, puzzled people (for they do suffer, and out of their suffering much of the bitterness against religion arises), I believe the thing is common. Letters of C.S. Lewis (10 February 1957), paragraph 1-5, pp. 273-274 I thought it might be best to hear the author talk about this book in his own words. Now that the book is finished, we can ask ourselves some core questions about it. What is this book about? Is the main character of this book Orual, or is it Psyche? What's the prevailing message? Is this book relatable? (That is. . . can you relate to any of the characters) Is this book for people who are "hurt from losing love" like Orual, or is it for people who "lost love from hurt" like Psyche? What are we taking away from this book? Leaving behind? What do you think of Lewis' comments about the book? Finally, the important question; Did you like this book? At any rate, I think that we can certainly see that, in the end, this book was a lot "deeper" than initially thought. As we said at the beginning of this book, C.S. Lewis said that this was his favourite book that he'd written. This book is definitely different from Narnia, but some of the same themes are there. . . they're just presented in a more adult way. On behalf of the moderators/reading group leaders, thank you for participating. Thanks for enduring this somewhat intense book, and thanks for making this a wonderful reading group. "Till We Have Faces," Destined-To-Reign DiGoRyKiRkE Wisewoman]]> Reading Group: Till We Have Faces DiGoRyKiRkE https://community-dev.narniaweb.com/community/reading-group-till-we-have-faces/till-we-have-faces-final-thoughts/ Book 2, Ch 3: The Book is Read https://community-dev.narniaweb.com/community/reading-group-till-we-have-faces/book-2-ch-3-the-book-is-read/ Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:16:58 +0000 There should be no gods at all, there's our misery and bitter wrong. There's no room for you and us in the same world. We want to be our own. Orual reads this out of her complaint to the gods, in the bitterness of her selfishness and jealousy for/of Psyche. Is this something our own world struggles with, and fights against? Can we be so caught up in being our own individual person, that we don't want any outer interference? #5.
The divine nature wounds and perhaps destroys us merely by being what it is
What does Orual mean by this? What has this book's definition of "The Divine Nature" been?]]> Reading Group: Till We Have Faces Destined-To-Reign https://community-dev.narniaweb.com/community/reading-group-till-we-have-faces/book-2-ch-3-the-book-is-read/ Book 2, Ch. 4: Justice https://community-dev.narniaweb.com/community/reading-group-till-we-have-faces/book-2-ch-4-justice/ Thu, 26 Aug 2010 08:24:57 +0000 1. "The complaint was the answer. To have heard myself making it was to be answered." What does this mean? Would you be satisfied with an answer like this? 2. What do you think of Psyche's punishments? Did either Psyche or Orual receive justice? 3. In this chapter we get the clearest indication of who Ungit is when Fox says, "All, even Psyche, are born in the house of Ungit. And all must get free of her. Or say that Ungit in each must bear Ungit's son and die in childbed—or change." What is Lewis saying? Who is Ungit? 4. What do you make of this book's ending? Is it fitting, or does it leave you with questions still unanswered? How do you think Orual intended to finish her last sentence? 5.
"We said we loved her." "And we did. She had no more dangerous enemies than us."
In a way, this sums up all of Orual's relationship with Pysche. Always trying to do what she thought was best for her, but always doing the opposite. What are your thoughts on this concept? Have you ever hurt someone when you tried to do what you thought was best for them?]]> Reading Group: Till We Have Faces wisewoman https://community-dev.narniaweb.com/community/reading-group-till-we-have-faces/book-2-ch-4-justice/ Book 2, Ch 2: Dreams and Dreams of Dreams https://community-dev.narniaweb.com/community/reading-group-till-we-have-faces/book-2-ch-2-dreams-and-dreams-of-dreams/ Thu, 19 Aug 2010 09:24:49 +0000 My face was the face of Ungit as I had seen it that day... I was that Batta-thing, that all-devouring womblike, yet barren, thing. Glome was a web—I the swollen spider, squat at its center, gorged with men's stolen lives. 'I will not be Ungit,' said I." What do you think of this revelation? Orual has reviled Ungit all her life — how did she become like the goddess? And how can she stop now? #4. "Who is Ungit?" This question is poised thrice throughout this chapter. Why is it important? How would you answer it?]]> Reading Group: Till We Have Faces Destined-To-Reign https://community-dev.narniaweb.com/community/reading-group-till-we-have-faces/book-2-ch-2-dreams-and-dreams-of-dreams/ Book 2, Ch. 1: Divine Surgery https://community-dev.narniaweb.com/community/reading-group-till-we-have-faces/book-2-ch-1-divine-surgery/ Thu, 19 Aug 2010 08:18:25 +0000 1. "The mines are not the only place a man can be worked to death." What do you think of Ansit's summing-up of Bardia's life? Was she right not to interfere, to let him serve the Queen even to his own detriment? Is he a victim who was worked to death or a collaborator in his own demise? 2. "I was his wife, not his doxy. He was my husband, not my house-dog." What does Ansit mean by this? What do you think of Ansit's and Bardia's marriage? 3. Orual desired Bardia as a lover, but Ansit wanted him as a friend. Were either of them content with what they had? Which was more disappointed? More jealous? Were either of them in the right? 4. What do you think of the "divine surgery" that Orual is experiencing? Why is surgery an apt metaphor? 5. Do you think that the gods used Orual's writing process to turn her eyes to herself more closely, and reexamine the whole sequence of events? Have you ever written out something that really bothered or weighed on you, either in a journal or simply to get it out of your system, and then had your eyes opened up?]]> Reading Group: Till We Have Faces wisewoman https://community-dev.narniaweb.com/community/reading-group-till-we-have-faces/book-2-ch-1-divine-surgery/ Chapter Twenty https://community-dev.narniaweb.com/community/reading-group-till-we-have-faces/chapter-twenty/ Fri, 13 Aug 2010 11:32:04 +0000 The one sin the gods never forgive us is being born a woman. What does Orual mean by this?]]> Reading Group: Till We Have Faces Destined-To-Reign https://community-dev.narniaweb.com/community/reading-group-till-we-have-faces/chapter-twenty/ Chapter 21: The Legend of Istra https://community-dev.narniaweb.com/community/reading-group-till-we-have-faces/chapter-21-the-legend-of-istra/ Fri, 13 Aug 2010 08:26:27 +0000 1. Do you find anything interesting about the new story of Psyche and Orual as was relayed by "Istra's Priest?" How do you think it "came" to the Priest? Is it really so different from the story that Orual has been telling? 2. Is the holy man right — was Orual jealous of Psyche? Why or why not? 3. "Why must holy places always be dark places?" How would you answer Orual's question?]]> Reading Group: Till We Have Faces wisewoman https://community-dev.narniaweb.com/community/reading-group-till-we-have-faces/chapter-21-the-legend-of-istra/ Book One: Closing Thoughts https://community-dev.narniaweb.com/community/reading-group-till-we-have-faces/book-one-closing-thoughts/ Thu, 12 Aug 2010 21:51:14 +0000 Reading Group: Till We Have Faces DiGoRyKiRkE https://community-dev.narniaweb.com/community/reading-group-till-we-have-faces/book-one-closing-thoughts/ Chapter 19: The Duel Within https://community-dev.narniaweb.com/community/reading-group-till-we-have-faces/chapter-19-the-duel-within/ Thu, 12 Aug 2010 21:39:41 +0000 It was of course the gods' old trick; blow the bubble up big before you prick it. Is this true, even from Orual's perspective? Have all of the difficulties in her life come about solely because of the gods, or have her problems arisen from her own choices?]]> Reading Group: Till We Have Faces DiGoRyKiRkE https://community-dev.narniaweb.com/community/reading-group-till-we-have-faces/chapter-19-the-duel-within/